专访谢尔盖·格拉济耶夫：“俄罗斯依靠我国”？甭理！（全文）

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长安街知事 | 记者刘晓琰

近年来，去美元化、扩展辅币结算的趋势在全球日益显着。中俄作为全球首要的经济体与重要买卖协作同伴，两国间的辅币结算协作不断获得新展开。

数据显现，本年前10个月，中俄买卖额打破1964亿美元，超越全年2000亿美元的方针已无悬念。俄罗斯总理米舒斯京上月表明，俄中两国已有超越90%的跨境结算在用辅币进行。

就在中俄稳步推动全方位、多层次协作的一同，美西方的言论开端“双管齐下”，一面烘托中俄“联手抵挡西方”，一面宣称“俄罗斯依靠我国”，企图搬弄是非。

怎么看待美西方的诽谤和寻衅？俄罗斯在“一带一路”结构下获得了哪些展开？欧亚经济联盟与“一带一路”对接现在展开怎么？下一步将要点注重哪些方面？俄罗斯正在大力推动“去美元化”，采取了哪些举动？

欧亚经济联盟一体化和微观经济部部长、俄罗斯科学院院士、俄罗斯总统普京原经济参谋谢尔盖·格拉济耶夫（Sergey Glaziev）就“一带一路”主张和中俄关系等与记者进行了同享。

格拉济耶夫表明，不要介意那些不友好国家对中俄全面战略协作同伴关系的观念。俄罗斯和我国作为两个主权国家，能够依据各自的利益地点来展开两国关系。俄中两国领导人定时接见会面，这是最高水平的信赖和相互理解。

他还表明，现在，许多国家正逐步在买卖结算或出资中转向运用公民币。在莫斯科买卖所，公民币与卢布的买卖比例已超越美元和欧元，未来简直全部的中俄买卖将运用辅币结算。

对接获得成功

知事：10月18日，俄罗斯总统普京在到会第三届“一带一路”国际协作高峰论坛开幕式时表明，“一带一路”主张旨在推动构建一个愈加公平的多极国际，是面向未来的重要全球性方案。他在此前承受采访时表明，俄方有意将“大欧亚同伴关系”、欧亚经济联盟同“一带一路”主张对接，以完成一同的展开方针。欧亚经济联盟与“一带一路”对接现在展开怎么？下一步的要点是什么？

谢尔盖·格拉济耶夫：毫无疑问，“一带一路”主张是国际上最大的一体化项目。十年间，我国同共建国家货品买卖额从1.04万亿美元添加至2.07万亿美元，年均添加8%。主张促进的出资也呈现了明显添加，超越了亚洲和欧洲开发银行的出资总和。“一带一路”为后自由主义全球化年代国家间经济互动供给了模范。

在自由主义全球化阶段，国际经济关系的中心是买卖和钱银操控的自由化。这种理论上的“自由化”在实践中为美欧的寡头和金融安排带来了巨大利益。在某种程度上，这是一场“零和游戏”，美欧的本钱进入“全球南边”国家，操控了这些国家的首要收入来历，拿走了巨额利润，对许多国家来说不啻为一场灾祸。但现在，自由主义全球化年代正挨近结尾。

在新式的国际经济格式中，焦点从死板的买卖和钱银监管转向了相互出资。在此布景下，出资者不用关怀这个国家的钱银监管或买卖准则是什么样的，这是对方的内部问题。我国的“一带一路”主张就表现了这一改变，该主张是未来国家间经济协作的模范，其理念是结合各国的竞赛优势，促进产品和服务的流转，谋福于全人类。

依据中俄两国领导人的决议，两国已正式宣告将“一带一路”主张与欧亚经济联盟对接协作。未来，中俄能够在欧亚经济联盟结构下同享经济空间，与我国企业和开发性金融安排一同发明更多相互出资的时机。

10月18日，普京在第三届“一带一路”国际协作高峰论坛开幕式上讲演。

这些出资中大约有一半是在交通运输范畴。俄罗斯作为欧亚大陆面积最大的国家，在联通东西方面发挥着巨大的效果。俄罗斯与“一带一路”共建国家协作最重要的优势之一便是“新交通走廊”的建造（即“欧洲-我国西部”国际交通走廊）。

电力、动力范畴，以及商业和物流中心的建造也是出资的重要方针，别离占俄罗斯与“一带一路”主张一同出资的20%左右。

欧亚经济联盟和“一带一路”主张的对接是树立在欧亚经济体与我国大规模经贸协作协议的根底上，在一个专门的结构内运转。还成立了一个委员会，以促进俄中两国之间的沟通，构成促进以出资和买卖为要点的经济协作规划。

曩昔三年两边协作效果明显，2022年，我国与欧亚经济联盟成员国买卖额超2000亿美元，同比添加30%。我国已成为该区域最大的协作同伴，约占该区域对外买卖的24%，其间出口占38%，进口占18%，估计本年双方买卖总额将再立异高。并且，中俄两国的买卖额也从5年前的1000亿美元添加了一倍，这标志着欧亚经济联盟与“一带一路”对接获得成功。

现在，我国已成为咱们买卖同伴国中的龙头，是俄罗斯等欧亚经济联盟国家的榜首大对外出资国和首要协作同伴。与此一同，中俄还在活跃加强在买卖监管和协作范畴的协作。例如在买卖和物流等方面展开了数字经济协作，一同改善海关法规以简化流程，并在食物监管方面和谐技能法规。

知事：您在本年的莫斯科经济论坛上表明，我国式现代化的阅历对期望融入当今国际经济新秩序的国家来说具有学习含义。能否进一步阐释一下您的观念，我国式现代化的进程有哪些值得学习的阅历？

谢尔盖·格拉济耶夫：我国真实成为国际经济添加的榜首动力，很大程度上得益于我国立异的经济调控系统。我国是成功地将多种经济方式结合在一同的一个有目共睹的模范。我国发明性地将社会主义国家的方案经济的才智与商场经济结合起来，在社会主义准则下，使商场在微观调控下对资源配置起决议性效果。这种结合，将私家企业家的立异精力与政府对钱银发明和价格监管的微观调控相结合。我国方式证明晰将中心方案和战略管理机制与商场竞赛、企业家精力相结合，能够完成最高功率。借此，我国有效地为出产添加和新技能引入发明晰杰出的条件，明显地带动了我国的经济添加。

我国的另一个奇观，是我国结合了社会主义经济学和本钱主义经济学的长处，拟定出新的经济政策。我以为，在我国政治和社会准则中起主导效果的仍然是、并将持续是社会主义意识形态，一同在其经济准则中也存在商场机制。这些要素结合在一同，构成了我国国民经济的巨大竞赛优势，使我国能够寻求自己的工业利益，也为各国之间的经济协作供给了巨大的新机遇。

我国是引领互利共赢国际协作的模范，成为了许多国家眼中的典范，我国用本身的展开实践展现了怎么有效地归纳经济添加的各种要素，怎么调集全部资源来促进经济添加、进步公民福祉。我国这种以公民生活水平的进步和出产的添加为规范的商场调节，会让那些发明新展开方式、供给更多服务、为社会全体福祉做出更大奉献的企业得到国家更多的支撑。

我国为其他国家供给了一个模范，展现了准则优势。我国坚持经济长时间安稳添加的阅历也适用于其他国家，不只能用于根底设施建造、经贸和出资范畴，也为各自的国民经济添加办法供给了学习。环绕我国式现代化完成办法的评论仍在持续，我国也将持续扮演国际经济添加的最大引擎这一人物。

未来简直全部中俄买卖将用辅币结算

知事：“去美元化”正在成为国际社会一个热词。在本年的金砖峰会上，俄罗斯总统普京在视频致辞中表明，金砖国家之间“去美元化”进程不可逆转，且正在提速。俄罗斯在“去美元化”方面现已做了哪些作业？

谢尔盖·格拉济耶夫：由于技能和经济方式的改变，展开我国家的社会经济正在阅历结构性改变，在通往现代化的路上，他们遇到了“绊脚石”，那便是美欧正运用其在国际金融系统中的优势来到达政治意图，企图坚持对国际储藏钱银的分配位置。

但形势现已越来越明晰，这场由美欧主张的“隐秘战役”注定要失利。西方国家从前引以为傲的竞赛优势，例如创立全球钱银并将其作为一种政治架构的方式，现在现已逐步失掉力气。人们对美西方政治系统的信赖度正在下降，对其钱银作为牢靠的储蓄和出资东西的决心也遭到不坚定。

作为对美国及其欧洲盟友扣押俄罗斯外汇储藏以及将俄罗斯扫除在西方金融系统之外的回应，俄罗斯挑选与西方钱银坚持间隔，这些钱银被西方用作政治压榨的东西，乃至作为对立独立主权国家的兵器。

俄罗斯将树立更安全的金融根底设施，运用数字钱银和区块链技能来躲避国际银行施行的惩罚性办法。经过推动在国际买卖中运用各国数字钱银进行结算，并树立国家数字钱银商场来促进各国之间的付出和国际结算。

俄罗斯中心银行大楼材料图。

此外，为满意咱们的一同项目和相互买卖的资金需求，应引入一种新的国际数字钱银。这种国际数字钱银应以“两种钱银篮子”为根底：榜首个“篮子”包含了参加此协议的各方的国家钱银，意味着新的国际数字钱银的价值将由参加国家的国家钱银权重构成；而第二个“篮子”则包含了全部各方一同出产和消费的产品，这表明新的数字钱银的价值也将与各方参加的经济活动和产品买卖有关。这种钱银能够作为防止通货膨胀的安稳东西，并为参加国的买卖供给通明和快捷的付出办法。

现在，许多国家正逐步在买卖结算或出资中转向运用公民币。在莫斯科买卖所，公民币与卢布的买卖比例已超越美元和欧元，未来简直全部的中俄买卖将运用辅币结算。其他欧亚经济联盟国家也呈现出越来越倾向于运用本国钱银的趋势，在买卖和出资中现在约85%的买卖额是用本国钱银进行。

运用本国钱银买卖结算的趋势一旦敞开就难以中止，由于不再运用西方钱银了，这会带来巨大的政治危险，或许导致出口收入的丢失。对了应对这种局势，有必要树立起能够用来融资、相互买卖、相互出资、促进协作的新东西，在对外买卖中运用本国钱银仅仅榜首步。

虽然运用本国钱银进行买卖能够削减一些危险，但仍然存在一些难以解决的问题。其间最首要的问题是价格构成依靠于其他国家，即产品估值仍然依靠于美国、英国和欧洲的买卖所来确认，这会导致产品价格动摇和买卖关系的不安稳。

因而，咱们需求树立自己的、安稳的、可持续的产品价格构成机制，引入新的国际数字钱银有助于完成这一方针。

咱们有望在不久的将来引入这种新的数字钱银作为国际钱银，其技能根底现已非常老练，由于现已有成功的试点模型。我个人期望在不久的将来，金砖国家与“一带一路”主张的参加者一道，举办国际会议，引入这一新的国际钱银经济方式，并签署施行这一方式的国际协议。依据我所概述的特色，新式国际钱银的引入火烧眉毛。

知事：现在印度尼西亚、伊朗、俄罗斯、阿根廷等多个国家正逐步在买卖结算或出资中转向运用公民币。稳步推动公民币国际化，增强我国在国际事务中的话语权和自主权，您有哪些主张？

谢尔盖·格拉济耶夫：正如我前面提到的，咱们现在正在用本国钱银进行买卖，并且比例正在上升。就俄罗斯而言，我国作为重要的对外买卖同伴和首要的外国出资者，当然应该参加到咱们一同的金融系统中。

关于不同国家的中心银行来说，参加俄罗斯付出系统的时机是巨大的。咱们现已在莫斯科买卖所开通了卢布与公民币的买卖，其间公民币的比例超越了美元和欧元。

因而，公民币的运用正在稳步添加，更适合咱们之间的买卖和出资。我信赖在不久的将来，俄罗斯和我国之间简直全部的买卖都将以卢布和公民币结算。在其他欧亚经济联盟国家，咱们也观察到类似的趋势——越来越倾向于运用本国钱银。

但是，正如前面所提到的，以本国钱银进行买卖并不是最优的，由于仍然存在一个首要问题，即价格构成。咱们的产品价格构成仍然依靠于美国、英国和欧洲的买卖所。在西方系统中，国际投机也在价格构成中起着首要效果。依靠其他国家确认的价格会导致产品价格动摇，给买卖关系带来严重应战。特别是由于大宗产品的动摇性非常大，咱们难以乃至无法规划长时间出资。

为了应对这种应战，咱们有必要树立自己的欧亚价格构成系统，以消除西方价格构成系统的影响。一同，咱们有必要与产品的出产者和顾客树立起直接联络，以此来下降对国际投机者的依靠。

咱们将从寻求投机价格转向寻求长时间价格安稳，这对俄罗斯的安稳和可持续展开非常重要。只要选用一种新的国际钱银才干完成这一方针，由于现有的国际钱银有其本身的特色，会构成动摇。咱们提出的新钱银系统将非常安稳、高效、快捷，不只为付出供给便当，并且为价格构成供给条件。

总的来说，虽然公民币和卢布在中俄买卖中所占的比例正在上升，但也不能抛弃引入一种新的国际储藏钱银。这一主张契合咱们的一同利益，应当引起注重。

知事：当地时间9月4日，普京在掌管举行动力问题会议时表明，虽然遭受了来自一些国家揭露的敌对举动和不合法的约束及制裁，俄罗斯动力企业总体上持续展开，成功地在对外买卖范畴寻觅新的牢靠的协作同伴。俄罗斯受制裁影响怎么？美西方主张的制裁成功了吗？怎么点评美国的制裁行径？

谢尔盖·格拉济耶夫：正如咱们所看到的，依据统计数据，俄罗斯经济持续添加。制裁关于遏止俄罗斯经济添加没有起到任何重要效果。虽然国际银行和国际钱银基金安排等安排曾估计2022年俄罗斯GDP将大幅下降约10%，乃至更多，但实际却呈现出不同的现象。从微观目标来看，俄罗斯经济仍然微弱：工业出产、GDP和出资活动等关键要素仍坚持弹性。这反映了俄罗斯经济很好地习惯了不断改变的经济格式，非常值得称赞。

在短短一年内，西方国家在俄罗斯的买卖中所占的比例下降了约13%。与此一同，与法语国家的买卖比例相应添加了13%。我国替代此前的欧盟（EU），成为俄罗斯的首要买卖同伴。国内出产和从我国及其他国家的进口抵消了俄罗斯对西方国家的进口依靠。

经过对外买卖结构的战略性改变，西方制裁对俄罗斯经济的影响得到了缓解。俄罗斯着重以本国钱银进行买卖，而不是运用美元和欧元，为此树立了新的买卖结算安排，以便当付出和买卖，防止对俄罗斯的内部和外部经济结构构成危害。

因而，制裁不光没有阻止俄罗斯的添加，反而成为发明新时机的催化剂，促进了新的经济方式、国际关系结构和以添加为导向的安排的展开。从本质上讲，施行制裁促进俄罗斯探究经济添加的立异途径，促进其从依靠西方的金融和经济架构，转向为全部买卖国的团体福祉而规划的新结构。

不要介意那些国家的观念

知事：美国和一些西方国家不断诽谤中俄全面战略协作同伴关系，对中俄正常的交际对话进行各种污名化，乃至还不断施加压力，要求中俄两国坚持间隔。您对此有何观念？

谢尔盖·格拉济耶夫：不要介意那些不友好国家对中俄全面战略协作同伴关系的观念。俄罗斯和我国作为两个主权国家，能够依据各自的利益地点来展开两国关系。

俄中两国领导人定时接见会面，这是最高水平的信赖和相互理解。咱们两国在严重交际政策问题上的态度类似，在联合国安理会的投票也常常一起。

俄中买卖展开杰出，在西方对俄买卖禁运后，俄罗斯从我国进口的产品在很大程度上替代了从欧洲进口的产品，俄罗斯的动力资源和许多原材料的出口都转向了我国。

中俄互免旅行签证，俄罗斯游客到黑河市吃早餐。

现在，就合资企业的数量和与我国经济协作的程度而言，中美和中日的买卖额远远超越了中俄的买卖额，后者未来还有很大的添加空间。俄中在科技方面的协作还能够进一步深化，并展开相互的开发性金融安排和大银行之间的密切协作。

最终，经过增进大学间学术沟通和双学历培育等方式，扩展两国在教育和科学范畴的协作至关重要。还有必要经过在第三国的联合出资，构成俄中竞赛优势结合的合力。

在第三国的联合出资活动将增强互信赖赖，构成俄中竞赛优势结合的合力。假如俄中两国一同主张推出一种与一揽子买卖产品挂钩的新式国际数字钱银，将具有重要含义，很有或许得到其他金砖国家和上合安排国家的支撑。选用新式国际数字钱银能够使咱们脱节对部分不友好国家的依靠——不只在付出和结算范畴，并且在定价方面——并促进国际向新的经济格式过渡。

图源：视觉我国

以下为本次采访的英文原文：

The Sergey Glaziev Interview: "Is Russia Leaning on China? Ignore the Noise!"

In recent years, the global trend of de-dollarization and expanding local currency settlements has become increasingly evident. China and Russia, as major global economies and important trading partners, have continuously made new progress in their local currency settlement cooperation.

Data shows that in the first 10 months of this year, the trade volume between China and Russia surpassed $196.4 billion, making it clear that surpassing the annual goal of $200 billion is a foregone conclusion. Russian Prime Minister Mishustin stated last month that over 90% of cross-border settlements between Russia and China are now conducted in local currencies.

While China and Russia steadily advance comprehensive and multi-layered cooperation, Western media has begun to adopt a two-faced approach, on the one hand, emphasizing the collaboration between China and Russia to resist the West, and on the other hand, claiming that Russia is becoming dependent on China, attempting to sow discord.

How should we view the denigration and provocation from the West? What developments has Russia achieved under the Belt and Road Initiative(BRI) framework? How is the integration progress between the Eurasian Economic Union and the "Belt and Road" initiative? What aspects will be the focus in the next steps? How is Russia vigorously promoting "de-dollarization," and what actions has it taken?

In collaboration with RDCY, Capital News has launched the “Global Governance Forum” section. Sergey Glaziev, a Russian politician and economist, member of the National Financial Council of the Bank of Russia, and the Commissioner for Integration and Macroeconomics within the Eurasian Economic Commission, the executive body of the Eurasian Economic Union, shared his views on the Belt and Road Initiative, China-Russian ties and other issues with us.

Sergey Glaziev stressed that in order to avoid the further acceleration of American aggression and to create new opportunities in economic growth, Russia needs more safe financial infrastructure. It couldn't use American dollar anymore, as well as European Euro, British Pound, or German Mark. For Russia, they all are toxic currencies, which are used by the Western countries, as an instrument of political pressure, and even as a weapon against independent nations. Notably, more than half of the trade between Russia and China is international currencies, and almost half of the export is already paid by Russian ruble. Russia and China are moving international currencies, and we are speaking about the introduction of the new essential currency, which will be based on the international treaty.

Glazyev had warned for years that it was imperative for Moscow to sell out foreign exchange assets placed in the US, Britain, France, Germany, and others which later ended up unleashing sanctions against Russia.

These assets should have been replaced by investments in gold and other precious metals; stocks of highly liquid commodity values; in securities of the EAEU, SCO, and BRICS member states; and in the capital of international organizations with Russian participation, such as the Eurasian Development Bank, the CIS Interstate Bank, and the BRICS Development Bank.

In a this interview, Sergey Glaziev also emphasized the inevitability of a global trade currency in the current economic context.

Glaziev defined the existing monetary system as “irrational” and advocated a substantial overhaul of the international financial framework. He pointed to the declining importance of the US dollar as a factor in this.

The declining prevalence of greenbacks in the global economy has highlighted the need for an alternative unit of account for global transactions. Therefore, the idea of a single currency may turn out to be more plausible than previously thought.

In light of the growth and importance of BRICS has emerged discussions on a single currency, exploring different approaches such as digital assets or pegging it to gold.

Glaziev argues that a BRICS trade currency may indeed be inevitable, he stresses that the countries that determine global economic development want to fundamentally reform the international financial system.

Glaziev also emphasized that dependence on the US dollar is decreasing, especially within the Eurasian Economic Union, where national currencies mostly replace it.

In conclusion, Glaziev confirmed that the BRICS bloc has a viable model for such a currency, based not only on selected national currencies of the member countries, but also on a basket of traded goods.

As for the Belt and Road Initiative, Over these 10 years, we have stayed committed to this founding mission. Thanks to our joint efforts, Belt and Road international cooperation has gotten off the ground, grown rapidly and produced fruitful outcomes.

Belt and Road cooperation has extended from the Eurasian continent to Africa and Latin America. More than 150 countries and over 30 international organizations have signed Belt and Road cooperation documents. We have held two sessions of the BRF before, and have established over 20 specialized multilateral cooperation platforms under the BRI.

Belt and Road cooperation has progressed from "sketching the outline" to "filling in the details," and blueprints have been turned into real projects. A large number of signature projects and "small yet smart" people-centered programs have been launched.

Belt and Road cooperation has expanded from physical connectivity to institutional connectivity. Important guiding principles for high-quality Belt and Road cooperation have been laid down, which include the principle of "planning together, building together, and benefiting together," the philosophy of open, green and clean cooperation, and the goal of pursuing high-standard, people-centered and sustainable cooperation.

Over these 10 years, we have endeavored to build a global network of connectivity consisting of economic corridors, international transportation routes and information highway as well as railways, roads, airports, ports, pipelines and power grids. Covering the land, the ocean, the sky and the Internet, this network has boosted the flow of goods, capital, technologies and human resources among countries involved and injected fresh vitality into the millennia-old Silk Road in the new era.

Trains speeding along rail tracks, automobiles running on roads, flights connecting different countries, cargo ships breaking waves, and e-commerce bringing so much convenience to people -- they have all become symbols of international trade in the new era, just like camel caravans and the sailing ships were for the past age.

Hydro, wind and solar energy based power plants, oil and gas pipelines, and the increasingly smart and interconnected power transmission networks are removing the development bottleneck caused by energy shortage and fulfilling the dream of developing countries to achieve green and low-carbon development. These energy projects have become the oasis and lighthouse for sustainable development in the new era.

Brand new airports and harbors, smooth roads, and newly built industrial parks for business cooperation have created new economic corridors and new growth drivers, and have become the trading routes and staging posts of the new era.

Rich and colorful cultural years, art festivals, expos and exhibitions, Luban Workshops, people-to-people exchange programs like the Silk Road Community Building Initiative and the Brightness Action program, and deepening exchanges between non-governmental organizations, think tanks, media organizations, and the youth -- all these flourishing activities have composed a symphony of friendship in the new era.

When COVID-19 struck, the Belt and Road became a life-saving road. China provided more than 10 billion masks and 2.3 billion doses of vaccines to other countries and jointly produced vaccines with over 20 countries, making a special contribution to BRI partners' efforts in fighting COVID-19. And China also received valuable support from more than 70 countries when it was hit hard by the pandemic.

Belt and Road cooperation is based on the principle of "planning together, building together, and benefiting together." It transcends differences between civilizations, cultures, social systems, and stages of development. It has opened up a new path for exchanges among countries, and established a new framework for international cooperation. Indeed, the BRI represents humanity's joint pursuit of development for all.

Glaziev stressed that The Belt and Road initiative (BRI) stands out as the largest integration project in the world. During the progression of this project, the volume of trade between countries which are involved in this project has increased from $1 trillion to $2 trillion, marking a substantial increase. The investments facilitated by this initiative have experienced a remarkable upswing, surpassing the combined investments of the Asian and European development banks. Undoubtedly, this is the largest integration project in the world. I think that it is a good example for all the other countries, how the international economic relations should be organized in the post-liberal globalization era.

At the core of international economic relations during the liberal globalization phase was the emphasis on liberalizing foreign trade and current regulations. The idea of the liberal globalization was to give opportunity for international capital to flow free from one country to another. This ideology was used for the oligarchs, financial structures in the United States and Europe. So, the free trade and liberalization of currency regulations was in favor of American and European capital. And it was, to some extent, the zero-sum game, the American and European capital got into the countries and control the major source of revenues in those countries, and then take a huge profit away. Such kind of integration which happened in the European Union, shows that for a lot of countries, it was a disaster. The era of liberal globalization is now drawing to a close.

In the emerging international economic landscape, the focal point shifts from the liberalization of foreign trade to the idea of mutual investments. The Chinese initiatives—Belt and Road Initiative— exemplifies this shift, demonstrating how international economic cooperation can thrive based on mutual investments rather than rigid trade and currency regulations. We are not caring what kind of currency regulation is in this or that country. We are not care what is the trade regimes in this or other countries. This is the internal issue of the southern nations. The idea of Belt and Road initiative is to combine the competitive advantages in different countries to boost the production of goods and services, for the well-being of the population. The Belt and Road initiative is an example of the future mainstream of economic and international cooperation between countries. And we follow this route, we can combine our competitive advantages in the mutual investment projects in order to improve compatibility of our economies.

Moreover, we also noticed that the United States and some Western countries keep criticizing the comprehensive strategic partnership between China and Russia, stigmatizing their normal diplomatic dialogues and even exerting continuous pressure, urging the two countries to keep their distance.

Glaziev argues that Russia and China should not care about the opinion of the unfriendly countries regarding our comprehensive strategic partnership. Being the two sovereign powers, Russia and China can build their relations according to their own interests. Notably, The leaders of our countries have regular meetings, the highest level of trust and mutual understanding.

He suggested that Russia and China need to work seriously on the real content of our strategic comprehensive strategic partnership. First of all, we need large-scale joint investment projects in high-tech industries, for example, such as the creation of a wide-body long-haul passenger aircraft, the construction of nuclear power plant, etc. It is necessary to stimulate the development of joint productions, the expansion of “cooperative cooperation”. To do this, we need to work out the mechanisms of targeted lending for such projects. We should develop close cooperation between our development institutions and large banks.

He stressed that it is crucial to expand cooperation in the sphere of education and science. To do this, it is advisable to develop network forms of interaction between universities, the double diploma practice and academic mobility. Consortia and technological alliances are promising forms of cooperation.

Moreover, it is necessary to increase joint investments abroad in third countries. This activity strengthens trust and creates a synergy of Russia-China competitive advantages’ combining. A joint initiative of our countries to introduce a new international digital currency, tied to a basket of exchange-traded goods, would be very relevant and certainly be supported by other BRICS and SCO countries. Its introduction could make it possible to get rid of dependence on unfriendly countries – not only in the field of payments and settlements, but also in pricing – and facilitate the transition to a new world economic mode.

EAEU Successfully Aligns with the BRI

Capital News: In 2023, it will mark the 10th anniversary of the introduction of the "Belt and Road Initiative. The BRI, drawing inspiration from the ancient Silk Road and focusing on enhancing connectivity, aims to enhance policy, infrastructure, trade, financial and people-to-people connectivity, inject new impetus into the global economy, create new opportunities for global development, and build a new platform for international economic cooperation. As of June this year, China has signed over 200 cooperation agreements on jointly building the BRI with 152 countries and 32 international organizations. What’s your overall impression of the BRI?

Sergey Glaziev:The Belt and Road initiative (BRI) stands out as the largest integration project in the world. During the progression of this project, the volume of trade between countries which are involved in this project has increased from $1 trillion to $2 trillion, marking a substantial increase. The investments facilitated by this initiative have experienced a remarkable upswing, surpassing the combined investments of the Asian and European development banks. Undoubtedly, this is the largest integration project in the world. I think that it is a good example for all the other countries, how the international economic relations should be organized in the post-liberal globalization era.

Capital News: Russia is an important partner for China in the construction of the BRI. Russia President Vladimir Putin said that he sees China's Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) as a desire to cooperate on the global arena. He said that “we see that some perceive it as an attempt by the People's Republic of China to crush someone under itself, but we don't see this that way: we just see a desire for cooperation," Russia's RIA state news agency cited Putin as saying.” "The Belt and Road Initiative" promotes connectivity and economic development among participating countries, benefiting all parties involved and tangibly improving the well-being of the people in these jointly constructed nations. Has the BRI promoted Russia’s development? Could you share some examples or data with us?

Sergey Glaziev:According to the decision made by the leaders of China and Russia, they have officially proclaimed the integration of the Belt and Road Initiative with the Eurasian Economic Union.

Commencing this integration, we are utilizing the shared economic space of the Russian Eurasian Economic Union in order to create more opportunities for mutual investments together with the Chinese companies and development institutions. If we analyze the structure of these mutual investments, it becomes apparent that roughly half of these investments are in the transportation sector. Russia, as the geographically largest country in Eurasia, plays a huge role, commanding a significant portion of Eurasian continent. Its role in transit relations and connections between different countries is of paramount importance. It is quite clear that one of the most important advantages of the cooperation between Russia and other countries of Belt and Road Initiative is the modernization and construction of the new transportation corridors.

So, the primary focus of these initial investments lies in transportation infrastructure, including railroads, roads, and pipelines. The second important subject is electricity and energy. This sector occupies more than 20 % of mutual investments. Additionally, the construction of logistic centers of various commercial centers is also very important subject of our relations, accounting for approximately 20% of mutual investments between Russia and Belt and Road Initiative.

The Belt and Road Initiative is concentrated on the mutual investments. And today the mutual investments are a key locomotive for the treasure roles. We see the huge growth between the Eurasian Economic Union and China. Our cooperation, between Eurasian Economic Union and the Belt and Road Initiative, is based on the large-scale agreement about trade and economic cooperation between Eurasian economic countries and China, operates within a specially designed framework. A commission has been established to facilitate communication between our countries, outlining plans to promote economic cooperation, with a focus on investments and trade.

The results of this cooperative effort are evident in the remarkable growth of mutual trade. During the last 3 years, we have experienced an annual growth rate exceeding 30%. China has emerged as the region's largest partner, constituting approximately 24% of our foreign trade, 38% of our exports, and 18% of our imports. The whole volume of trade is expected to surpass $200 billion this year, representing a significant doubling of trade within the past three years. Notably, the trade level of $100 billion, reached five years ago, has now been effectively doubled, underscoring the success of our collaboration between the Eurasian Economic Union and the Belt and Road Initiative.

Capital News: The Russian-led Eurasian Economic Union (EAEU) is a key partner in China’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), since it comprises the majority of territories which the BRI’s overland route, the Silk Road Economic Belt, needs to traverse as it crosses Central Asia on the way to Europe. What impact does the deep alignment between the EAEU and the BRI have on Russia and the entire Eurasian region? In which areas do these two entities have cooperation prospects? What has been the current progress, and what achievements have been made so far? What aspects will be the focus of attention in the next steps?

Sergey Glaziev:As you mentioned, we witnessed significant growth in our mutual trade and joint investments last year. At the same time, we have been actively improving our collaboration in the fields of regulation of trade and cooperation. For instance, we have made a mutual effort in order to improve the customs regulations, to simplify the custom procedures, to harmonize the technical regulations, particularly in the oversight of food products.

And, of course, we've introduced digital solutions for our trade documentation, the documentation covering transportation and goods. Our cooperation extends to customs affairs, where we exchange experiences in electronic trade and logistics—undoubtedly, one of the most crucial aspects of our partnership. The dialogue on the questions of the trade policy is going on very quickly. At the moment, China has ascended as the leader among our trading partners, holding the top position as the primary foreign investor and a major partner for Russia and other countries within the Eurasian Economic Union.

Capital News: You mentioned at this year’s Moscow Economic Forum that China has set an example for how to manage economic development under modern conditions, and the experiences of Chinese-style modernization are instructive for countries aspiring to integrate into the new economic order of the world today. Could you please elaborate further on your perspective, what specific experiences from China’s modernization journey do you believe are worth emulating?

Sergey Glaziev:China has really become central to world economic development, and it happened largely attributable to its innovative institutional system for regulating its economy. China serves as a compelling example of successfully combining diverse economic approaches together. It adeptly combines the wisdom of centrally planned economies found in social countries with the insights gained from market economies. This integration involves blending central strategic planning with market competition, and the private entrepreneurship with government control over the money creation and price regulation.

By this, China has effectively fostered very good conditions for the growth of production or introduction of the new technologies. This opportunitie have materialized in the remarkable growth rates of the Chinese economy.

China’s another miracle, is based on the new system of management, which was elaborated in China, taking together the advantages of the socialist and capitalist economists together. China still has and will have, I’m sure, the socialist ideology within its political and social system, and at the same time market mechanism in its economic system. These factors coming together create a huge competitive advantage of the Chinese national economy, allowing it to pursue its own industry interests and great new opportunities for economic cooperation among countries. China shows the good examples of international cooperation in forms of mutual investments. China serves as a compelling model for many countries, demonstrating how various factors of economic growth can be effectively combined to enhance the well-being and incomes of the population.

The social ideology creates constraints for market regulation, and only those private entrepreneurs would support from the state who create models, offer more services and make more contribution for the overall well-being of the society.

This kind of regulation of market by the criteria of the growth of living standards and the growth of production, give us a very good example how the country can mobilize all the resources for economic growth. And results of a Chinese experience of a very high risk of current growth can be used in the other countries as well. This experience is not only pertinent to the realms of construction, economics, trade, and investment relations but also offers insights into creating opportunities for economic growth within our respective national economies.

While the debate around this approach persists, but I’m sure that China shows a good example for the whole mankind, how you can organize the mobilization of all economic resources in favor of the growth of the wellbeing, of the population. The Chinese model demonstrates the efficacy of combining central planning and strategic management mechanisms with market entrepreneurship and competition to achieve maximum efficiency.

China has become the center of the new world economic motor. It shows an example for other countries that what institutions, what methods of market economic regulation should be used in order to achieve specific results.

Nearly All Sino-Russian Trade to Be Settled in Local Currencies in the Future

Capital News: "De-dollarization" is becoming a prominent topic in the international community. At this year's BRICS summit, Russia President Putin stated in a video address that the process of "de-dollarization" among BRICS nations is irreversible and gaining momentum. During the Russia-Turkey summit on September 4th, Turkey President Erdogan expressed support for Russia's initiative to settle a portion of trade in local currencies, and the central bank governors of both countries will hold discussions on the specific steps for currency settlement. What are your views on "de-dollarization," and why have many countries around the world recently been initiating this trend of moving away from the U.S. dollar?

Sergey Glaziev:The structural changes of developing economies, which take place because of changes of technological and economic modes. As usual, unfortunately, they are going through the road-keeper tour. The United States and its European allies are trying to use the advantages in the world financial system for political purposes attempting to maintain dominance over the world's reserve currency. It is increasingly evident that this secret war initiated by the Americans and Europeans is bound to be lost.

Their once-competitive advantages, such as the creation of the world currency as the model for a political structure, have waned. There is a diminishing belief in the American and Western political systems, as well as skepticism about using their currencies as secure instruments for savings and investments.

America, for sure, is facing losses in this economic war waged against Russia, China, and other independent nations. However, the consequences of this war extend beyond individual nations and pose an escalating threat to global stability.

In order to avoid the further acceleration of American aggression and to create new opportunities in economic growth, we need more safe financial infrastructure. It couldn't use American dollar anymore, as well as European Euro, British Pound, or German Mark. For us, they all are toxic currencies, which are used by the Western countries, as an instrument of political pressure, and even as a weapon against independent nations, which are trying to pursue their own economic and social policy, in order to avoid the further damage.

In response to the arrest of Russian currency reserves and the exclusion of Russia from the Western financial system by the United States and its European allies, we have opted to distance ourselves from the use of Western currencies.

The reliance on the American dollar, euro, or pound as reserve currencies in trade and investments has diminished. Efforts are underway to minimize the use of these currencies within the Regional Economic Union, where approximately 85% of mutual trade is now conducted in national currencies. Notably, more than half of the trade between Russia and China is international currencies, and almost half of the export is already paid by Russian ruble. We are moving international currencies, and we are speaking about the introduction of the new essential currency, which will be based on the international treaty.

This moment couldn't be stopped because we cannot use western currencies anymore. It poses a huge political risk, potentially leading to a loss in export revenues. We have to construct new instruments, which we can use to finance, mutual trade, mutual investments, and promote our cooperation. Transitioning to national currencies in foreign trades is the first step.

The second step will be the digitalization of national currencies used in the international trade. This digitalization is necessary in order to avoid sanctions, because we can use digital currencies and blockchain technology to circumvent punitive measures enforced by international banks involved in global transactions. The second step entails establishing a market for national digital currencies and social digital currencies, facilitating payments and international settlements between our countries.

The third step will be the introduction of a new international digital currency in order to finance our mutual projects, and to finance our mutual trades, enabling settlements and payments. This new international digital currency should be based on the two baskets: the first basket is the national currency of the contrast involved in this agreement; the second basket is the basket of commodities collectively produced and consumed.

According to our economic mathematical model, introducing a currency based on these two baskets proves to be a stable instrument that avoids inflation, issued transparently among participating countries in this new international payment system. We can introduce this new international currency in the nearest future. The technical aspects of constructing this currency are already in place, as we have a pilot model. I hope that in the near futures, BRICS countries, along with participants in the Belt and Road Initiative, will come together for an international conference to present this new international currency economic model and sign international agreement for its implementation. The introduction of this international currency is imminent, based on the features outlined.

Capital News: Several countries, including Indonesia, Iran, Russia, Argentina, are gradually shifting towards using the Chinese yuan (Renminbi) in trade settlements or investments. As China steadily advances the internationalization of the yuan, enhancing its role in international affairs and its sovereignty, what recommendations do you have in this regard?

Sergey Glaziev:At the moment, as I mentioned earlier, we are conducting trade in national currencies and the share of national currency usage is on the rise. In the case of Russia, China, being a key partner in foreign trade and a major foreign investor, of course, should participate in our mutual financial system. The opportunity for various central banks from different countries to participate in the Russian payment system is significant. We have also opened trading between the ruble and RMB on the Moscow Exchange, where the share of RMB in Moscow transactions surpasses that of the dollar and the euro. Consequently, the use of RMB is increasing steadily, proving to be more suitable for our mutual trade and investments. I'm sure that in the near future, nearly all trade between Russia and China will be settled in ruble and RMB.

If you're speaking what's about other Eurasian Economic Union countries, we observe similar trends— an increasing preference for the use of national currencies.

However, trading in national currencies is not optimal, because the major problem which still exists is the price formation. Our commodities' valuation is still dependent on exchanges in the United States, England, and Europe. Relying on prices established in other countries introduces volatility to commodity prices, posing substantial challenges in trade relations. It is impossible to plan long-term investments with the very high volatility of the commodities.

To address this challenge, we have to create our own Eurasian price formation system independent of Western influences, where the major role in price formation is played by the international speculation. You have to get rich from international speculators and create opportunities to hold direct relations between producers and consumers of commodities. And we shall move from the speculative prices to the long-term prices, to create price stability, which is very important for the stable and sustainable development of our countries. Achieving this objective is possible only through the introduction of a new international currency, because international currency have their own specific characteristics that contribute to volatility. The new currency we propose will be very stable and very useful, very comfortable, offering convenience not only for payments but also for price formation.

In any case, in spite of the fact that the share of RMB and ruble in our trade is going up, it would be imprudent to dismiss the project of introducing a new international reserve currency. This initiative aligns with our mutual interests and should not be overlooked. This raises a crucial question regarding sales.

Capital News: On September 4th, Russia President Putin, while hosting an energy-related meeting, mentioned that despite facing overt hostile actions and unlawful restrictions and sanctions from some countries, Russian energy enterprises have continued to develop overall. They have also successfully found new reliable partners in foreign trade. How has Russia been affected by the sanctions, and have the sanctions initiated by the United States and Western countries been successful? What is your evaluation of the U.S. sanctions policy?

Sergey Glaziev:As we see, according to the statistics, the Russian economy continues to grow. The sanctions didn't place any important role for the growth rates of Russian economy. Despite projections from entities such as the World Bank and IMF, which anticipated a substantial decline of around ten percent or more in Russian GDP, the reality portrays a different picture. The Russian economy maintains robust macroeconomic indicators; key factors such as industrial production, GDP, and investment activity remain resilient. This reflects a commendable adaptation of the Russian economy to the evolving economic landscape.

In just one year, the share of Western countries decreased about 13 % in our trade. while the share of transactions with French-speaking countries increased by a corresponding 13%. The European Union, once the primary trading partner, has been eclipsed by China emerging as the principal contributor. Import dependencies on Western countries have been offset by internal production and imports from China and other allied nations.

The impact of Western sanctions on the Russian economy has been mitigated through a strategic shift in the structure of foreign trade. We emphasize transactions in national currencies rather than using dollars and euros. We don't use Dollars and Euro anymore. New institutions have been established to facilitate payments and transactions, averting damage to the internal and external economic fabric of Russia. So, the sanctions, rather than impeding growth, have served as a catalyst for creating fresh opportunities, fostering the development of new economic models, international relations frameworks, and growth-oriented institutions.

In essence, the imposition of sanctions has spurred Russia to explore innovative pathways for economic growth and activity, prompting a shift from a Western-dependent financial and economic architecture to a new framework designed for the collective well-being of all participating countries.

Pay No Mind to the Opinions of Those Countries

Capital News: The United States and some Western countries keep criticizing the comprehensive strategic partnership between China and Russia, stigmatizing their normal diplomatic dialogues and even exerting continuous pressure, urging the two countries to keep their distance. What are your thoughts on this situation?

Sergey Glaziev:Firstly, we should not care about the opinion of the unfriendly countries regarding our comprehensive strategic partnership. Being the two sovereign powers, Russia and China can build their relations according to their own interests.

Secondly, The leaders of our countries have regular meetings, the highest level of trust and mutual understanding. Our states hold similar positions on major foreign policy issues, and they almost always vote the same way at the UN Security Council.

Russia-China trade turnover is developing well: after the embargo on trade with Russia imports from China largely replaced the discontinued imports from Europe, exports of Russian energy resources and many raw materials were reoriented to China. However, China-US and China-Japan trade turnover, i.e., trade with unfriendly countries for us, significantly exceeds the similar China-Russia indicator of economic cooperation activity. The current business cooperation has even more modest results: in terms of the number of joint ventures and the intensity of cooperative ties with China, Russia has much more weak positions than ASEAN countries, Pakistan, India and even unfriendly countries. Russia-China scientific and technical cooperation also needs the more intensive development.

Thirdly, we need to work seriously on the real content of our strategic comprehensive strategic partnership. First of all, we need large-scale joint investment projects in high-tech industries, for example, such as the creation of a wide-body long-haul passenger aircraft, the construction of nuclear power plant, etc. It is necessary to stimulate the development of joint productions, the expansion of “cooperative cooperation”. To do this, we need to work out the mechanisms of targeted lending for such projects. We should develop close cooperation between our development institutions and large banks.

Fourthly, it is crucial to expand cooperation in the sphere of education and science. To do this, it is advisable to develop network forms of interaction between universities, the double diploma practice and academic mobility. Consortia and technological alliances are promising forms of cooperation.

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